Friday, April 04, 2008

Logical... or not?

It's just something I've been pondering, but I was thinking about how I don't always manage to explain clearly what my opinion is. I often have a very strong opinion about something, and can quite easily start a rant state that opinion. :) What I'm not always capable of is stating that opinion clearly or logically. So what I've been wondering is whether this is something I should work on, and while it may be, another thing that's come to mind is this.

Maybe it's better that women not be super-logical and able to argue their way through anything. Not that we should be clueless and unable to think for ourselves, but being overly-ready to logically and ruthlessly debate a point practically to the death could lead to having trouble submitting to authority. Obviously women already struggle with being submissive to husbands or fathers, we certainly don't need more ammunition.

We are very emotional, and that leads to irrational arguing sometimes, but would it be better for a woman to be a little irrationally upset that her husband didn't notice her new dress, for instance, or to soundly beat him over the head with concise arguments and facts about how many times he hasn't noticed things, etc.? I'm afraid that if we get in the habit of debating, we're going to carry it to all aspects of life and end up being argumentative. Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman. Yeah, not good.

Take for example, Hilary Clinton...sorry, a bit of an extreme example I know...but think about it. Say she argues illogically and emotionally...scary, yes, considering that she's running for president. Then say she argues with deadly precision and well-aimed logic, like the lawyer that she is...even more frightening coming from a woman. Being the weaker vessels with imperfect logic that we are, we're bound to lose if we argue purely logically, but think how much more horrific is it if we don't lose the argument?

I'm not suggesting that women should be silly and not have an opinion on anything, that's just as bad...they may not have the brains to argue with their husband, but he's stuck with a wife who's not going to be any help at all. Capable of encouraging, perhaps, but not able to help him think through a dilemma.

And I'm certainly not saying all this to pat myself on the back and say "There, there, aren't you just so submissive, you can't state an opinion clearly..."! :) It's just something that occurred to me while I was thinking this over...and I probably do need to work on expressing myself a smidge more clearly, but the submitting part is also relevant in that I need to be submissive to my Dad. And while I'm not called to submit to the other males I know, I need to at least be patient and respectful to them...something that's sometimes hard with some of the people I know, including my little brother! ;)


Ana said...

Wow, I think you have some very good points! What came to my mind while I was reading is that women are to cultivate a meek and quiet spirit. So if you're unsure if you should take up a debate ask yourself if in so doing will you be cultivating a meek, quiet, Christ-like spirit. If you can answer yes, make sure you know when to stop (is the point really worth debating?), that you think sober-mindedly and don't over do it. It is not wrong for women to be logical, God didn't not, by any means, say that women should be illogical. But He did say, as you've so wonderfully pointed out, that we are to be submissive, logical or not.
You're post was very well done!! Keep it up!

Natalie said...

(is the point really worth debating?)

Yes Ana, that's one thing I think I forgot to put in my post...there are some things I have an opinion on, but I simply don't see any reason to argue about it! :)

And I think women should be as logical as possible, just not push it too far.

Thank you for the encouraging comments you post!

Ana said...

"Just not push it too far."

Yes! I often find myself having to bite my tongue. And not just with people I interact with outside of the house, but with my siblings. How fare is too far? Also, what should run through my mind is what kind of example am I setting, to young and old, as to what a young Christian woman should be?

Just thinking "out loud" here. :) Thanks again for your post. It's so wonderful to come and read and actually AGREE with what is said, I can't say that for many blogs out there!

rebecca said...

I think we should be able to explain our opinions clearly, but without turning it into a hot debate. Because you can have an opinion (but calmly!) and ultimately submit to someone else's.

But I hadn't thought about that...I tend to rant illogically.

mandolinartist said...

Interesting Subject.... First I think of Timothy's Grandmother Lois and his Mother Eunice who taught him in the faith. (1 Timothy 1) Then, in looking at the Proverbs 31 woman, she considered and bought a field (Prov 31:16) She made goods and sold them and was wise in her speaking.

Being logical or smart or able to reason through things will help 'women' in their daily duties, their walk with Christ, their relationship with their husband, and all other capacities of life. Being illogical would be a drain to all these situations.

A woman who has a husband does have a leader, but a leader needs good followers. Genesis 2:18 calls it a “help meet.” However, even a married woman is not with her husband constantly. She must be able to deal with daily issues and situations. Also, husbands or fathers do not answer to Christ for us as Romans 14:12 tells us: “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”

Finally, some of my thoughts while reading the blog are: should we be emotional, that is irrationally emotional? What does the 'weaker vessel' mean, physically weaker, emotionally weaker, weaker in roles, etc? In the New Geneva Study Bible, the commentators say, regarding 1 Peter 3:7 that ‘weaker’ means physical and specifically not moral, spiritual or mentally unable. Lastly, in keeping in spirit with the subject, I wrote this but sent it after my husband read it.

Scott said...

Wonderful musings Natalie. Amanda brought my attention to your blog. I liked it so much I thought I'd throw in a few comments myself.

In the beginning of your blog, you wonder whether you should work on stating your opinions more clearly or logically. I would greatly encourage anyone to do such as we learn in 1 Corinthians 14:33 "God is not the author of confusion," and unclear opinions are confusing. Opinions, not stated logically, are nothing other than illogical.

You question whether or not women should be "super-logical." John 1:1 states "In the beginning was the Logos (Word), and the Logos (Word) was with God, and the Logos (Word) was God." Matthew 10:24-25 indicate that neither women nor men can be super-logos or logical.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that "women should not be overly-ready to logically and ruthlessly debate a point practically to the death" as 1 Timothy 6:4,5 clearly indicates. Both men and women should exemplify the character taught us in 2 Timothy 2:15,16.

You ask "whether it would be better for a woman to be a little irrationally upset that her husband didn't notice her new dress for instance or to soundly beat him over the head with concise arguments and facts about how many times he hasn't noticed things." I believe the logical person will understand the feebleness of human attention and memory and therefore not find the need to become "irrationally upset" nor the need to debate with "concise arguments and facts" over such trivialities.

I defer to my wife's response for the correct interpretation of "weaker vessel." Lastly, as far as being patient and respectful to men, it is my hope that we can all mimic the mentality set forth in 2 Timothy 2:24-26 realizing "when a man's (woman's as well) ways please the Lord, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him" (Prov.16:7).